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Kevin Oak: Thoughts You Have Before An 860 lb Squat (Podcast)

Written by Jake Boly, CSCS
Last updated on November 11th, 2024

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Kevin Oak has held multiple all-time powerlifting world records throughout his career. Currently, he holds the 242 lb raw all-time world record for the squat with his recent 860 lb lift. Outside of powerlifting, Kevin also owns his own apparel business, Barbell Commission. 

In today’s episode we chat with Kevin about a variety of topics including his pre world record mindset, what his next epics feats of strength will be, and much more.

In this special in-office episode of the BarBend Podcast, David Thomas Tao and Jake Boly talk to Kevin Oak about:

  • 0:20 Why Kevin is feeling “skinny” these days
  • 0:55 Kevin’s normal fluctuation of weight between meets
  • 2:30 The recap from Kevin’s last meet at the Hybrid Showdown II
  • 3:50 Why Kevin doesn’t go that heavy on squats in training when leading up to a meet
  • 5:15 What goes through Kevin’s mind before shattering a world record and lifetime PR
  • 6:20 What it really means when powerlifters take a fourth attempt
  • 8:20 What Kevin plans to squat when he competes at 220 lbs
  • 8:50 Which world records Kevin plans to take down in the 220 lb weight class
https://youtu.be/hdPsm40DYAw
  • 9:30 The lift Kevin loses the most strength on when he cuts weight
  • 12:00 How Kevin cycles and uses his deadlifts in training versus meets
  • 14:15 What muscle Kevin strained when he was sick
  • 15:12 Why Kevin is doing more pre-hab and rehab work now
  • 16:14 What Kevin thinks would happen if he tried to do CrossFit
  • 18:12 What else Kevin plans on accomplishing in his powerlifting career
  • 19:55 The “why” that keeps Kevin pushing new limits
  • 22:20 What athletes surprise Kevin and what lifts do
  • 24:00 We talk about Cailer Woolam and his frame
  • 27:00 Does Kevin think Julius Maddox can bench 800 lbs by the end of 2020
  • 30:00 We talk about basketball stuff and Kevin dunking
  • 33:00 We talk about David’s hair and why it is the way it is…
  • 34:50 What’s next for powerlifting and what’s to come in the next few years

Relevant links and further reading:

Transcription

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Based on how the 848 moved, I was like, “I’m probably good for like 870.” But I was like, “I don’t really have enough time to…” I’m like, “Just get enough back to hit 860. Hit the 860 nice and clean, no questions.” You know what I mean? Next time, I’ll plan my attempts accordingly to set up for 870, 880 probably.

Jake BolyJake Boly

Welcome to the “BarBend Podcast,” where we talk to the smartest athletes, coaches, and minds from around the world of strength. I’m your guest host Jake Boly, joined with David Thomas Tao, and this podcast is presented by barbend.com.

 

Kevin Oak has held multiple all-time powerlifting world records throughout his career. Currently, he holds the Raw 242-pound all-time world record squat in his recent 860-pound lift. Outside of powerlifting, Kevin also owns his own apparel business called Barbell Commission.

 

In today’s episode, we chat with Kevin about a variety of topics including his pre-world record mindset heading into Meets, his next epic feats of strength he has lined up and much more.

 

As always, we’re incredibly thankful that you listen to this podcast. If you haven’t already, be sure to leave a rating and review of the BarBend Podcast in your app of choice. Every month, we give away a box full of BarBend swag to one of our listeners who leaves a rating and review.

 

Today in the BarBend office, we are honored to have a powerlifter, and man, about town New York strength icon Kevin Oak. Kevin, thanks [laughs] so much for joining us today.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

What’s up guys?

Jake BolyJake Boly

You mentioned…I got to start off. You mentioned right before we started recording that you’re feeling skinny these days and you’re down 15 pounds. Was that intentional or unintentional?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Intentional, but I do not intend to lose it that quick. I’m dropping a weight class from my next comp. I want to try to go after the 220-squat records so I got to get under 240, basically, which I am already. I was sick all last week so that week came off a little quicker than [laughs] expected.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Do you fluctuate? Does your weight in training when you’re not necessarily in competition prep you naturally fluctuate a lot?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Yeah, I usually come down. At my last Meet when I competed at 242, I was walking around at 250, 255-ish mostly, but I have to eat up to that weight outside of that. I usually immediately just come right back down to 230s.

Jake BolyJake Boly

I was going to ask, is it harder to take on or put on weight, and at what range is it the toughest for you?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Neither are that hard. It’s no harder to put on weight for me because I have…My guys have a pretty high BMR. I’m not a big eater. I have to think to eat more whereas it’s easy for me to lose weight. I just eat a little less. I’m more active. Just move around more, walking around more, do a little cardio, and I do drop lately pretty quick.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

For all of you at home, just that’s the Kevin Oak method if you’re looking to drop weight.

Do a little cardio, be one of the world’s best powerlifters in multiple weight classes, it’ll come off in the blink of an eye. It’s super, super easy. Walk around town. When you’re running track in college, how much did you weigh?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Like 180, 185.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Wow.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Yeah. I’m a little bigger now.

Jake BolyJake Boly

Big Kevin, 8 little Kevin.

 

That’s what we get right now.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

It’s mostly my shoulders. My legs were the same size, though.

Jake BolyJake Boly

That’s impressive. Your legs are not small. I guess that makes sense for a track athlete. You’re cutting down. You’re going to compete at 220.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Yeah.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Let’s talk about your recent performances at the weight class above that because they are certainly, certainly noteworthy. If you wouldn’t mind, giving listeners who might not be familiar a recap of your last comp and your performance there?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Yeah. At my last competition, I did the hybrid performance showdown down in Miami. I was pretty much doing squat only. I wanted to do for me, but I had strained both of my biceps tendons, where it connects the shoulder on both sides. I couldn’t bench a lot, the token bench.

 

I thought I would be able to deadlift, but I had a strained tibia. It was very iffy when I was trying to warm up for deadlift, so I was sleeping alone. Squat went well. [laughs] Broke my own world record by 22 pounds.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Sounds good. What do you end up squatting?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

860 in knee sleeves not knee wraps. Raw at 242.

Jake BolyJake Boly

Had you gone heavier than that in training or was that just like a lifetime PR, anything like that?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

That’s a lifetime PR by a lot. The 848 that I did before was a lifetime PR by a lot. Before that, the heaviest I ever squat was for 838. I did that my last meet which was a lifetime PR.

 

I don’t usually go that heavy on squats in training. I don’t really get much out of it. I’d rather hit a heavy triple, heavy four rep, five rep that I get more out of that. I don’t have that issue of, on squats at least, where I can’t go from doing lighter weight to heavier weight. I usually don’t have an issue maxing out on squats so I don’t really worry about hitting that top weight in training.

Jake BolyJake Boly

Correct me if I’m wrong. The third attempt actually broke the world record. You push it even further on the fourth attempt, right?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Yeah, I was targeting somewhere in the 850s. Originally, I was going to 854 on my third, but I was like, “Let me hit 848.” Because I hit 826 or something on my second just to be warmed up enough for it. I was like, “Let me see how 848 feels, and then I’ll know how much I have left for a fourth attempt.”

 

I smoked 848. I probably actually had 870 in me, but you don’t have that much time if you take a fourth. You have to take it right after all the third attempts. I was very tired from doing 848 so I was like, “Let me hit 860,” another 12 pounds and go from there. [laughs]

Jake BolyJake Boly

I was going to say, it was insane how easy it looked. I want to ask you a question. You break the world record on the third. You’re heading into your fourth attempt. What’s going through your head, man? Because I can’t even comprehend that weight, and you’ve already had the world record. What’s going in your head to the fourth attempt? Was it about fun? Was it about pushing your limits? What was there?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I was honestly just trying to get my energy back as quick as I could. I was like, “If I get another bar, recovered enough from that 848, I’ll hit it. I knew based on how the 848 moved, I was like, “I’m pretty good for 870, ” but I was like, “I don’t really have enough time to…” I’m like, “Get enough back to hit 860, hit the 860 nice and clean. No questions.” You know what I mean? Next time I’ll plan my attempts accordingly to set up for 870, 880 probably.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

It’s worth noting for most people, even if you’re listening to this podcast, and you’ve competed in strength sports before, powerlifting especially, even having a fourth attempt is so rare and signifies that you’re at that level. For people who might not be familiar, when does that fourth attempt come in? Because it’s not something you see at every powerlifting meet.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Usually, in certain federations, if you’re going for a world record attempt, you can take a fourth attempt as long you also hit your third attempt.

David TaoDavid Tao

Even just saying, “Oh, on my fourth attempt…” When someone leads with that…

 

 …in talking about their power lifting performance, you’re like, “Oh, I bet it went well.”

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

 I will never have a fourth attempt in my lifetime, but it’s all right.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

You never know, man. Cut to 132…

Jake BolyJake Boly

Yeah.

 

Kevin OakKevin Oak

…maybe.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I’m trying to set a PR for fourth attempts witnessed. I’m just going to go to a lot of powerlifting meets and just talk about fourth attempts.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I’ve seen a good amount of fourths. A good amount sprinkled throughout the years.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

 I was going to say you lifted big meets. Bigger meets than a small fish.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I want to start a federation where you can take a fourth attempt if it’s a gym PR. If it’s the most it’s been squatted…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

At your gym.

David TaoDavid Tao

 …in that weight class, at that gym, we’re going to go to a lot of small Crossfit boxes and have powerlifting Meets so a lot of people get fourth attempts. Probably still not Jake unfortunately.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Definitely not.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

The thing is with fourth attempts, it’s not really worth it most of the time. I only did it because I knew I wasn’t benching basically.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Right. Right.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I didn’t really care about wasting that energy when normally I don’t do fourth attempt squats. I just try to get those three times right on. At the last Meet, I hit 838 on the third. I could have went for fourth and went heavier, but I was like, “I’m going for a world record total so don’t waste energy.” You have to build your total from there, but I was doing squat only so it’s like, “Whatever, just keep going. Max out.”

David TaoDavid Tao

 

We’ve found something even rarer than taking a fourth attempt to squat, and it’s declining a fourth attempt squat.

Even more rare than having the option is saying, “You know what? I’m not going to increase that world record again today.”

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Speaking of World Records, what is the current world record in the 220-pound weight class? What have you squatted around there at that weight?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

At 220, it’s 822 for raw no knee wraps. I did 810 three years ago. That was the last time I competed at 220. That was low bar. I high bar most of the time. I know I can go heavier so just going to try to see what I can do with a little leaner. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Are you going for just a squat record in that category, or do you want the total record in that weight category?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 I’m not sure yet. Definitely, I want to go after the squat. Depends how well my shoulder recovery is by then. Because I haven’t benched in over a month. I got to get to a point where I can start bench again, and I don’t want to rush it. If I’m not ready, I’m not going to force it for this Meet, but if they’re good to go, and I can bench or whatever, then I’ll try to go for the total two.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Which lift do you lose the most on during a weight cut or if you’re dropping a weight class?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

It varies. Probably bench. Bench is an immediate loss when your body weight goes down, for sure. Honestly, I may sound like a jerk, but I don’t even like to bench when I’m under 245 because it just feels very different. I can tell my range of motions a little longer, and I just feel weak. Probably bench, but also squat.

 

Deadlift, my deadlift will actually go up when my body weight goes down because I can get into position easier. It’s between squat and bench. Bench, I just feel it. You’re on the bench, you just know. You’re like, “Oh, this just sucks.”

“This bar is going so far.”

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

[laughs] No, it’s crazy. I feel like I am nowhere near your level, but that’s always the same for me. A couple pounds makes a fucking huge difference on the bench. Even the setup, and how I contract and get set up, it’s just, I feel off. I don’t feel right and normal. I understand that. I don’t think you’re a jerk in saying that.

I think a lot of people listening are probably like, “Yeah, my bench sucks when I lose five, 10, 20, 30 pounds.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I honestly don’t even like…When I’m under 240, I just don’t even want to bench. [laughs]

I’m like, “Screw this.” Squat, too. Squat, you definitely notice, but on squat, I guess the difference is if you come in really bloated on bench, it won’t mess with you. Whereas on squat, you can feel too bloated some days, and it can work against you. Bench is very just straightforward, direct relationship, like body weight up, bench presses up. Body weight down, bench presses down.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

On the deadlift, you talk about getting into slightly better positions when you’ve dropped a little bit of weight. I know I’ve talked to some people in heavier weight classes that when they drop weight they actually get a better grip on the barbell. Their hands have a little bit less fat on them. Have you noticed that as well?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 Not really. I personally haven’t had the grip issue. I don’t sumo actually. I pull conventional competition, but I’ve definitely seen that, especially for people when they’re recomping after a big week cut. A lot of people’s hands swell a lot. I’ve never had that issue. For me, it’s more so if my stomach is bigger, it will usually…My lower back will be more sore generally.

 

When I’m trying to draw my hips down into conventional, sometimes I can’t as good a position. It’s annoying. It’s hard to get down there. It feels that much harder.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

You lift conventional in competition. I see you train sumo quite a bit. You only cheat in training?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

[laughs] For the most part. Although, I’m trying to learn hook grip because for me, for the most part over the years, training sumo builds strength better for me whereas conventional is more of a display of strength. I could do it for the most part. I tend to be stronger conventional than sumo, but my last training cycle, I was able to hit an 800 triple in sumo.

 

I was like, “Wait, my sumo might actually be stronger than my conventional now.” I can’t pull heavy sumos without straps. When I try to do over under, the bar just flips away from me. I’m trying to learn hook now, but we’ll see. [laughs]

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

How’s that process going and how have you been implementing it?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

We did one session, and then I got sick, and I’m like, “Aw…” [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Jake, to answer your question, the process isn’t going well. [laughs]

I’m not saying it’s causation, but hook grips once, get sick, loses 15 pounds of body weight. Let this be a warning for every…No, I’m a little biased. I had a pretty significant wrist surgery a few years ago that I partially attribute heavy hook grip deadlifts, but that’s just my experience.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Really? I’m worrying about that.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I actually think it was an old injury from something else I just never got fixed. It really started getting aggravated with heavy hook grip deadlifts. Well, heavy for me. No weight for you, basically.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

I [inaudible 15:05] hook because I was having issues of…I tried it twice so far this training cycle. Because I was trying to figure it out, because I can double over hand 600. Usually 550, but the most I’ve done is six. When I go to hook, it becomes an issue. I notice that when you do an overhand, your hand is more like this.

 

Your wrist is bent in whereas when you do hook, the line gets stretched this way. That’s a big issue for me. It’s what I’m noticing because I just have really tight forearms.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Yeah. You feel it in the tendons and everything and in your forearms.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

It feels completely different. When I tried to get my lats tight, it’s extremely awkward, but I’m working on it. The other issue is because while sick I kept sneezing. I sneezed so hard I freaking strained my intercostal on the left side. I can’t even deadlift right now. I could do a slow descent squat, but if I tried deadlift right now, it’s going to hurt a lot.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Kevin Oak’s immune system is so strong…

…that he got sick and pulled a muscle. That’s illness goals for me.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

For all people who are wondering if you can hurt your ribs sneezing, you can.

Jake BolyJake Boly

I think that’s the biggest question we had coming into this podcast. Speaking of having trouble some biceps tendons, I see you’ve been posting more with the Motive guys and doing a lot more pre-rehab and rehab work. They’ve been sharing some of your stuff out too.

 

From all the years, I’ve followed you, this is the most I’ve ever seen you share out with that work and exercise and stuff you’re doing for your body. What sparked that? What inspires doing more of that work? Are you doing more than you ever have? Are you being a little bit more in tuned with things that you might not have accounted for earlier on or what’s going on?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Mainly now, I’m trying to go to Kinstrech. I don’t know if you guys know what that is.

Jake BolyJake Boly

Yeah.

David TaoDavid Tao

Yeah.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

I’m trying to at least one Kinstretch class a week. I couldn’t go last week, but I’m going to go this Sunday. I’m just trying to go at least once a week. It’s one of those things where the more Meets you do, as time goes by, you’re getting more and more beat up. Being able to still compete in itself becomes almost a sport. Getting to the platform in one piece is hard enough in itself.

 

It’s one of those things where as you get older you just got to do more and more to actually be able stay out on the field.

David TaoDavid Tao

I have a very serious question now.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

What’s up?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Dropping down to 220, competing, hopefully setting a world record there. After that’s accomplished when will you inevitably make the change to CrossFit?

That was obviously not a serious question.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I’ve thought of this before. What would even happen if I tried to do a wide…or whatever and it would go so bad? Literally, I’m all fast-twitch muscle. I have asthma and I have just no endurance at all.

It’s like, “It would be such a disaster.”

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Kevin Oak will stare down nearly 900 pounds on a barbell without blinking but you ask this man to run a mile.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Dude, I can’t even do sets of split squats.

 

I did split squats the other week and I was dying.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Split squats are hard.

I don’t care. You can get into a Bulgarian split squat position with your bodyweight and do 10 reps on each leg and you’re going to be breathing heavy. They’re just tough.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

That and I’m just tired and imbalance. Some falling all over the place.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I was going to say, what’s that norm for you to work on when you’re doing more of that pre-rehab and rehab work? Where are your troublesome areas these days?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

It’s always the same thing, shoulders, hips. Knees have gotten better. Luckily for me, I didn’t have any quad tendonitis. Last spring is when I was stunned because I usually get that, especially towards the end, but I didn’t have any quad tendonitis so I was like, “Oh, I’m going to squat a lot.”

I might know people of bench but my shoulders might not work.

David TaoDavid Tao

The tendinitis just migrated. It’s just your body took tendonitis.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I just went to my biceps. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

There’s a set-level of tendonitis you have as an elite powerlifter and it has to go somewhere so you’ve to balance it out.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Honestly, it’s like that.

Like it’s never all good, but whatever, I got some squats.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

What are some other goals that you have in your powerlifting career? You’ve accomplished a lot. We’ve talked to a lot of great powerlifters on this podcast and you’re one of the most accomplished people in the sport we’ve talked to. Is there anything left as far as like, “Hey, I want to do this or I want to do this bodyweight?”

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Yeah. I want a 900-squat in sleeves which I probably didn’t think would be possible until I do the 816, and it wasn’t that hard. I was like, “Oh, I probably can get to 900 at some point.” Only it will be a little heavier but I was like, “Ah.”

 

Even that day I was like, “I’m probably capable of 880 right now on a perfect day. It’s 20 more pounds. Oh…” It’s one of those things where when you’re not squatting that much yet, you look at the number 900, you’re like, “I’m never going to get there. 900?”

 

It’s like a couple of years ago where I did 220 while I squat 810 and that was a PR. At that point it’s like if you’re looking at 900 you’re like, “Well, that’s never going to come right,” but all of a sudden three years later or a year or two after that, it’s like I was at 830, then close to 840.

 

With some left in the tank, I go, “This means I do 860,” where I feel like I can do 870 maybe even be at 880 and then it’s like, “Oh, well, that gap is closed now. 900 isn’t so far away.” I feel like I can get to nine. It’s going to be hard but I can get there. Probably it was like 275 or above.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

What keeps you going with that path? I feel like you keep setting these new landmarks for yourself and you’re in uncharted territories with respect to your weight class. What’s that why that keeps you going for these bigger numbers? Is it just to prove yourself wrong? Is it just to push the sport further?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I don’t know. It’s almost like you just keep…I don’t know. [laughs] You just want to keep going after it.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

He’s a powerlifter, Jake. His motivation is to power lift. Yeah, I know but it’s…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

By the time you’re in this thing, you never think of yourself as a powerlifter or anything. You’re just, “I want more.” He just always want. Once you get to whatever level or whatever accomplishment, you always want more.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

What factor has your competition…By that, I mean other people in the…Well, you compete in two weight classes. Other people in those two weight classes, there are a lot of good-lifters at 220 and above. What factor does that play in pushing you? Do they push you or you kind of just keeping that motivation internal?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Yes and no. I don’t know. It’s like I’m aware of who’s out there for sure. I like seeing people hit bigger and bigger numbers and break records. The way I’ve always looked at it is part of a thing that isn’t like a contact sport. It’s like you’re doing your own thing so it doesn’t…

 

Like if someone shows up tomorrow and squats 915 sleeves, I have no worry. It doesn’t affect me in any way. It’s like you have your goals and you go after them.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

You’ll probably be pretty impressed if someone pulled that off.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

You would definitely be impressed, but I just mean it doesn’t change what you’re doing at all. You go after your numbers. If that happens to be a world record, cool. If it’s not a world record, you’re still going after your numbers.

Jake BolyJake Boly

Is there anyone in your weight classes or beyond — it could be on the men’s side or the women’s side — anyone you look at today and they really do surprise you? The equivalent of, if someone showed up at 220 or 242 and did a 950-pound squat in sleeves or something like that.

 

Is there anyone where you see them doing something — could be any weight class, could be man or woman — and it surprises you to that extent?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Not really, not any more. Mostly just because I’ve always known that the numbers were going to go up a lot. I feel like a couple of years ago, the depth was very thin. It was a lot easier to break world records. The talent pool wasn’t that big.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

The sport was smaller. It wasn’t what it is today.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

As more people come in, I know we’re going to keep seeing more and more freaks. We’re going to see more and more extremes of things. Especially with sumo deadlifts and stuff like that, we’re going to see more and more people be able to pull 1,000 and 1,000-plus.

 

I’ve always figured that was going to happen. People are going to be drawn to this. First it was Yuri a couple of years ago that really shocked people. Now you have multiple people that are pulling 950-plus. Someone else over the weekend pulled right around 950.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I forget his name.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

That’s hilarious. Even when BarBend’s not even four years old and the fact that when we started out, I could name everyone in the world who could pull that weight. Now it’s like, “Oh, someone pulled 950.”

Kevin OakKevin Oak

A couple of years ago, it was the race to 900. In my weight, the 220, 242, who’s going to break 900? Now it’s like, “Well, who’s going to be able to get into that position on sumo and see what they can…” It’s changed. There’s a bunch of guys now that can do 950-plus or getting close to 1,000, and there’s going to be more.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I remember, what was it, it was three years ago, right, David? When we first covered Koehler’s big…was it 800, 900-pound pull, and it just exploded. Then I feel like a couple months after, within like six months, we were seeing a landslide of more and more heavy pulls.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I think it was it was maybe a 900 in training off, though I don’t think I was…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

It was probably around there.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

It was like off the blocks or something like that. I don’t even know if I was a full lift. The article just went absolutely nuts. It’s like, “Oh, here’s this…” A lot of comments were — and this is no disrespect to Koehler — it was, “Who is this skinny guy pulling 900 pounds?”

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Have you seen Koehler in person?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

No, I’ve never met him in person.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

He has a weird frame. He looks skinny in video but in person he’s kind of tallish, but he has very broad shoulders, very small waist.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

He’s got really long limbs, so it might look skinny on camera, but if your arms are that long…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

He isn’t that heavy. He’s under 220 most of the time. The way he’s built, you’re like, what…he’s like a spider, kind of. You’re like, “What the hell?” When you look at him, you can tell his hips are very strong and solid. He’s one of those people you’ve got to see in person.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

OK, so this is weird. If Koehler’s watching, it’s like, dude, what the…At the 2018 Arnold, I was standing in the cage. I remember taking a picture with Koehler and the first thing that went through my head, I was like, this dude’s lat is freaking very wide.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Huge.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I was like, holy crap, this is like a whole other body.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

That’s what happens with most deadlifters. Bench pressers look big from the front, but deadlifters usually look kind of thin. Then, their backs are just wide and thick. Plus, they usually have long, skinny arms. It gives them a thinner appearance, but they’re usually pretty thick.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

That was nuts.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I’m going out on a limb here, and I’m going to say that the days of the deadlift…I think this is the last year, 2020, that we’re going to be paying attention to the deadlift. A lot of barriers are going to break this year. In the sport of Strong Man, I think Eddie Hall’s 500 kilos is going to fall this year. Thor is going to lift it. I do. He’s going to be attempting it a couple times this year.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I don’t think so. You don’t train with Thor. He’s awesome. He might do it on the elephant bar or whatever, but calibrated plates on a deadlift bar, I don’t think so. That’s probably one of the craziest lifts ever, that 500-kg deadlift. That was such an insane and he just smoked it. I was like, what the…

David TaoDavid Tao

 

He almost died, to be fair.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

He had a heart attack afterward. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

He was bleeding from his face, so just to just to clarify. It smoked him. OK, so that’s a prediction. I think the next thing we’re going to see about it…

 

I feel like deadlifts have kind of had the last few years. I feel like we’re going to be focusing more on the bench, and I think a lot of that’s due to Julius Maddox trying to make a run at 800. But I think there are a lot of other really good benchers out there right now. I think that’s the lift where we’re going to see a lot more barriers fall over the next few years.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Possible, possible. Yeah.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Do you think Julius Maddox can hit 800 pounds this year?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

It’s hard to know. I wouldn’t say he can’t. But I know he just hit 765.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I wouldn’t call anything like that easy because it’s clearly not, but it looked smooth.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

I definitely wouldn’t say he can’t. His bench is going up, so I don’t know when it’s going to stop. It might stop on the other side of 800. It might stop on this. I don’t know. Who knows?

 

David TaoDavid Tao

 

It’s weird thinking that there could be a hard stop out there for a lift like that, right? It keeps progressing, but is there a hard stop? Is there going to be a finite number that the human body is just like, “Nah man, I’m not doing any more of this.” That’s a great question across athletics. Not even just rank sports, like how fast can someone go?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

We’ve seen Usain Bolt in person. That dude’s a monster, too.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Yeah. I’ve never seen him in person.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

He’s like 6’5″ and ripped. When you see him in person, you’re like, “I get it.” You see the muscle fibers, and you’re like, “That’s not from this planet. What is this guy?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

People probably see you and they think the same thing. You’re just 220 pounds of fast twitch muscle fiber and asthma. So people probably see you, and they go, “This guy. He’s not from around here.”

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I feel like there’s people look up to me, and I’m just like, “No,” because I look up to people. I look at Zion, and I’m like, “All right. This dude’s 6’6” and so sharp, athletically, where you can stop on a dime and do these moves, and also has a 48-inch vertical and is 280. That, to me, is crazy.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Yeah, but you’ve got a 47-inch vertical, right?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I probably used to have. I tried to figure out when I was in high school. I was 5’10” in high school. I’m 5’11” now, but I used to be able to hit my head. I used to be able to brush it right on the bottom of the backboard. So I figured my vertical was around 46. But again, that’s at that height, which isn’t as impressive as a guy with a 48 inch vertical at 6’6″. That’s on a whole other level.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

You were also a lot lighter back then. You also have a lot more weight to move right now.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

Oh, right now, I can’t. I tried. I forgot. I measured my vertical a year ago I think it was 38, or something, now.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

That’s still insane. It’s like upper echelon of college basketball.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

If I wasn’t this heavy, it would be right up in…There’s a lot of people out there with crazy verticals, though. You’d be surprised.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Do you play basketball these days?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I do not, not now. Literally, my arm is so tight, and whatnot, I can’t even shoot straight. Look which way my hand goes in shooting position. It’s supposed to go, like…If I try to shoot, it’s super awful.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Yeah but you’re great at dishing it. Just play point. Just dish out, like Ricky Rubio over here, just dishing out all these assists, just these creative passes.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

 I used to play. I used to play, but nah, not anymore. It’s one of those things where, when you stop and you also add a lot of body weight, [laughs] it gets very difficult to get back into.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

That makes sense. That makes sense.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I’m curious because if you can dunk a basketball…If I could dunk a basketball — I cannot — I’d just play basketball all the time. I would post up under the rim and wreck leagues and be like, “Hey, pass it to me.”

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I used to be able to dunk, but I also…

David TaoDavid Tao

 

You probably still can. You’re still physically capable of dunking.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I’d probably hurt my knee if I really tried. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

You might not survive, but if you have a 30-inch vertical…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I’d go up, but coming down…

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Yeah, you can get up there.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Usually, when I do jumps and stuff, the hardest part’s the landing. It’s just like, “Argh.” My knees, they’re not shock-absorbers anymore. [laughs] When I win, it’s like, “Argh.” [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Next time you want to dunk, let’s do this. You can dunk and then we’ll have someone with a little stepladder. You just hang off the rim for a second, do some pull-ups. Then we’ll bring the stepladder and you can just walk back down and prep for your next [inaudible 32:48] .

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

You know what I was remembering the other day because of watching the dunk contest? When I was in high school, I did do the Vince Carter elbow-on-the-rim thing. Not with the ball. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Oh, what is that called? It had the name for that.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 It has the name, I forgot. I did it because, when I was in high school, that was peak Vince Carter time when I was in high school.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Where you just hang from your elbow, from the crook of your elbow. That was Vince-sanity. He’s still playing.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Which is insane. [laughs] I don’t understand.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

[laughs] It’s still Vince Carter. I want to clarify, this man, he’s played in a league this year.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I think he’s 42. When you think about all the people he used to play with who have been retired for 10 years already, you’re just like…Like Tracy McGrady, who’s an awesome NBA analyst.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Dirk was the last non-Vince Carter player from that draft class.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Probably. He retired last year, right?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Yeah, or maybe two years ago Dirk retired.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Wasn’t there one other guy? Was it Dirk? Who?

David TaoDavid Tao

Anyway, his longevity’s impressive no matter your sport.

 

This is now a Vince Carter podcast. We talk about Vince Carter.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

[laughs] I had the Shox in high school. I loved those shoes.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Oh my gosh, I think that was before my time?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

That was probably before you were born, Jake.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

That was like 2000.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I was eight.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I think Kevin and I are closer. Kevin, how old are you, do you mind me asking?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

33.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I’m about equi-distant between you two then. I might be to closer to Kevin than I am to you. I think, physically, I’m closer to Kevin than I am to you, Jake.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I don’t know about that. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

People see us and they’re like, “Oh, those guys look similar.”

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

 I’m also…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

[laughs] These guys go to the same gym. They’re clearly training partners.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

[laughs] They clearly train…Maybe second cousins, twice removed.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

[laughs] I have pretty curly hair, so it’s possible.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I’m growing it out, by the way. If you’re not watching the video of this podcast, my hair actually extends up above the headphone bridge.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

That takes work. [laughs] You got to respect it. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

It’s eventually going to mention…My hair’s going to then meet again if it goes any longer about the headphone.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Tune back in in two months and you’ll see it up here, every day get stronger and bigger.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

When we record remotely with people, whether we’re recording on Zoom or Skype or something, if we turn the video on…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

They’re just like, “Whoa!” [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

People look at me and, because it takes up so much of the screen, they’re like, “You good? What’s going…?” Strength athletes — I have to do recording with a lot of strength athletes, researchers — they tend to be pretty put-together people. I feel like that’s…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

 Meh, strength athletes.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Maybe 10 years ago, not so much, but these days. This is the days where Taylor Atwood shows up with perfectly coiffed hair. Is that a [inaudible 35:27] ? Coiffed, coiffed?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

He’s Mr. Wall Street though.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

I’m not sure. He’s an IBM guy.

David TaoDavid Tao

They look at me and they’re like, “What is going on with you, Buddy?”

 

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Well, you’re clean-shaven though.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Well, kind of, I don’t know. I got some…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

You look like you definitely live somewhere.

David TaoDavid Tao

I do live…Thanks Kevin. This has pumped me up in a big way. Back to powerlifting…

 

…what changes do you think powerlifting is going to go through over the next few years as a sport? Could be at the Federation level, could be at the sport level, could be at the community level, what have you.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

 don’t know. I feel like it has grown a lot. I don’t know if it’s going to continue to grow that much. But it could, which would be awesome. I see USAPL/IPF getting bigger and bigger.

Just because it’s the easiest to the normal person who just starts lifting that’s the easiest like, “I just work out a regular gym. Use regular bars like nothing crazy. I don’t have to learn how to use a model and stuff.”

I see USC PLIPF continue growing in popularity. Non-test civil probably keep growing because people in general just keep flooding into the sport. I don’t know. I don’t know in terms of…We’re going to see numbers keep going up as the talent pool just keeps increasing.

You’re constantly seeing on Instagram, PR. Everything’s about PR-ring. We’re just going to continue to see world records broken over and over, unless you get some people come into certain weight classes that are just open a lot.

We’re going to continue to see growth. We’re going to continue see world records broken, continue to see more Meets. We got the Sheffield Meet coming up on IPF side. A lot of people could be interested to see how that goes because that’s finally money being put out on that side, on the testing side.

That probably could be a huge thing on that side just to see people get money, whatever, maybe more sponsorships, whatever, but they’ll probably be huge on that side. I don’t know. Hopefully, more money Meets but I don’t expect to see anything crazy happen. [laughs] I don’t know.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

I was going to ask, who do you have on winning the Sheffield Meet?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

I don’t know because this is one of the things I hate where powerlifting is like IPF points and well it’s like…I don’t understand.

 

When you watch UFC Night there’s what, 5 cards maybe, 5 fights there. At the end of the night they’re not like, “All right, well, now we go to formula and we’re going to pick who the best fighter overall is.” It’s just like, “This person won that weight class. This person won that weight class.”

 

To me, they should is when they do money Meets, they should just split the money across weight classes maybe because Wilks and IPF points it’s a random formula and they can just change it.

 

Next week I can change the formula. I’ll be, “Well, we’re using this formula now. So now this person’s not the best. This person’s the best,” and it’s like, “But nothing [laughs] changed. So how does that work?” I don’t know, I don’t care.

 

IPF points helps the lighter lifters. Isn’t that right? It’s probably going to be a 74 or 83-kg rate, one [inaudible 39:16] . I don’t know. [inaudible 39:17].

David TaoDavid Tao

 

It’s kind of like, “Whose Line Is It Anyway?” where the old adage was where everything’s made up at the points don’t matter. If anyone watched that show. If you could add, this is a dumb question…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

I remember it like 20 years ago. Drew Carey?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Drew Carey, yeah. That was before your time, Jake.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

First off, I used to watch “Whose Line Is It Anyway.”

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

There’s some drama. [laughs] There’s drama with Drew Carey right now isn’t there? He died or something…?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

His ex-fiancée was murdered.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Was murdered?

David TaoDavid Tao

 

 Yeah. It’s actually quite a…

Kevin OakKevin Oak

It’s a crazy drama. [laughs]

David TaoDavid Tao

 

This is not a true-crime podcast. We’re going to release the “Barbend True Crime Podcast,” a few a few months from now. It’s going to be hosted by Jake and he’s just going to be scared all the time.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

 Sick, write that in the contract.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Kevin, where is the best place for folks to keep up to date with what you’re doing, training, competition, coaching, all that good stuff?

Kevin OakKevin Oak

 

Try to drewcarey.com. [laughs] For me, mostly Instagram. I do YouTube sometimes, but usually closer to Meets, so Instagram @oakstrong. I also own Barbell Commission Apparel so check that out barbellcommissionapparel.com.

Also, their Instagram @barbellcommission but that’s about it. For coaching just DM me or email, growoakstrong@Gmail.com.

David TaoDavid Tao

 

Listeners as always, we will drop links down below in description of this video and within the article where we do the transcript. Thanks for joining us, Kevin. I really appreciate it.

Jake BolyJake Boly

 

Thanks, Kev.

Kevin OakKevin Oak

That’s good.

About Jake Boly, CSCS

Jake holds a Master's in Sports Science and a Bachelor's in Exercise Science. Jake formerly served as BarBend's Fitness and Training Editor.

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