Joe Yoon: Better Stretching and Mobility (Podcast)

That’s one thing I’ve learned growing in this industry. You always have to play devil’s advocate. It’s never trying to put yourself in a box because when I first started, I would take a continuing education course. Then I would follow all of his buddies.

I only believed in one thing and then a couple years later, they’re like, “What about this?” I’m like, “No, that’s so stupid.” This person said this and then I was like, “Yeah, maybe that actually does make sense.”

Welcome to the “BarBend Podcast,” where we talk to the smartest athletes, coaches, and minds from around the world of strength. I’m your host, David Thomas Tao, and this podcast is presented by barbend.com.

Today, I’m talking to Joe Yoon, a trainer and massage therapist who has built one of the fitness world’s most engaged followings through accessible stretching and mobility advice almost anyone can do at home.

You probably know him as @joetherapy on Instagram. Joe’s approaches helped strength athletes, runners, pros and weekend warriors of all levels move and feel better. He’s also the best-selling author of “Better Stretching.”

I chat with Joe on his approach to mobility, why advice on flexibility and mobility seems to change so much so quickly, and what we still might be getting wrong when it comes to move and prep. This includes a pretty frank discussion where Joe’s opinions have changed over the years and why it’s so important for wellness professionals to evolve with new research and information.

Joe Yoon, thanks so much for coming by at the BarBend office today. We’re recording this in the middle of a whirlwind trip for you. You were on another podcast right before this. You were talking to everyone in the fitness industry. What have been some highlights on this trip for you?

Also, I just want to take a second to say, we’re incredibly thankful that you listen to this podcast. If you haven’t already, be sure to leave a rating and review of the BarBend podcast in your app of choice. Now let’s get to it.

I came from a well-known strength & conditioning coach over in Jersey, Joe DeFranco, works with a lot of the WWE guys, probably most well-known for training Triple H. Then I just came back from your buddy Jordan Syatt’s podcast and I’ve known him for a long time, or a couple of years now. Fun fact, he actually named my book.

Oh really?

Yeah, that was really cool. I stop by him or his place with his buddy Mike. So that’s…

Mike Vacanti, right?

Yeah, Mike Vacanti. They’ve been, as you know Gary V’s trainer for the past so many years. Just amazing guys.

Jordan, it’s so interesting. I first met Jordan when he was a college student. Not to get too much in the weeds, but it’s just such a small world. He’s been on the BarBend Podcast before. He’s worked on with us on a lot of content.

Seeing him go from record-holding powerlifter, a guy lifting four times his body weight, training at Westside Barbell to now being just a very big name broader fitness-influencer. His evolution and taking the lessons from being a hardcore powerlifter and then now reaching a much broader audience. It’s been cool to see that evolution.

Yeah, I’m a huge fan of his and how he presents his information because we were very similar where we like to take in the complex and simplify it, so it’s very usable for the general person, but also the seasoned athlete as well.

That’s one thing I like about your content and I want to go into that. I didn’t know your last name until a few days ago. I just knew you as @joetherapy.

[laughs] Everyone’s like, “That’s your full name, Joetherapy. Someone commented a couple of days ago. I said, “Massage therapy session by Joe Yoon,” and they’re like, “That’s your last name?”

 “Mr. Therapy is my father. I just go by Joe. Call me Joe.”

It makes a lot of sense and it has become your brand, Joetherapy. Even before we started chatting about you coming in, doing a podcast, recording some content, I’d seen your stuff. It’s very recognizable.

Obviously, it features you. You’re in pretty much everything you do, which not a lot of folks necessarily do online. You will get a lot of people who talk about prehab exercises, accessory work, and they’ll always have a model athlete demonstrating this stuff.

When you demonstrate — it could be a particular sweat-stretch, prehab, rehab, some kind of movement — you are your own model. You’re demonstrating pretty much everything.

Has it always been that way? Have you thought about, “Oh, maybe I should bring in some other influencer or some other athlete to kind of be the model?” Why are you your own model, basically is my question?

It’s almost as a necessity because it’s very easy just to pop up the camera and record yourself and then put information out there, instead of always having someone there to be the model or collaborate with so it was very easy.

Back in the day when I was starting my social media, it was all about consistency and putting out information on a daily basis, and I was busy on top of it. I was doing other things and doing social media, more on the side.

It was just a convenience factor and it was never easy for me to get in front of the camera either, but doing it in the comfort of my home in my apartment was a very easy thing to do because no one was watching me either. I always got a little nervous when there’s multiple people in the room and I was trying to do [laughs] something.

Did you ever worry or do you ever still worry that someone’s going to call you out because maybe you’re not as strong in one position, or you have an imbalance and you’re not as mobile in something that you’re demonstrating? There’s this level of social proof there.

I definitely get called out often. I also try to tell people that first of all, every person’s body is different. It’s anatomically different. We all are at different levels, and also I only want to be as mobile or flexible as I want to be what I want to accomplish.

Not everyone wants to be the yoga-instructor flexibility-level. Maybe I just want to squat with good form. Maybe I just want to be able to swing that golf club with enough rotation so I don’t tweak my back too much.

Again, I don’t get too many people who call me up, but they’re like, “Man, you don’t look like the picture on the left where they’re squatting ass to [laughs] grass.” I’m like, “I got like long femurs and it’s a little bit different.” I’m taller than it looks in all my videos. I always try to come back to it and it’s like, “It’s not wrong. It’s just different.”

It’s interesting because right after we record this podcast, we’re going to record some videos and talk about some of your favorite stretches and exercises for strength athletes. I’m a little nervous because my mobility around the BarBend office is notoriously poor so I’m interested to be called out on video, and I’m sure I’ll get those comments.

You mentioned being as mobile as you want to be. There’s always this end goal we have as strength athletes, even if you’re not necessarily a competitive athlete and you’re just looking to get stronger. Rarely are people thinking to themselves, “I want to squat as deep as possible.”

They’re thinking, “I want to squat well and I want to make progress in it and feel better at it.” What do you think people overcomplicate or maybe overestimate when it comes to building mobility and flexibility?

A lot of the times we put these parameters like you have to be this mobile, and it really is sport-dependent. If you’re a barbell athlete and maybe you’re in more of the weightlifting, Olympic-lifting type of work, you have to almost be at those extremes.

It’s true. Weightlifters want to be able to squat as deep as possible because that’s the barbell?

Exactly. It’s going to help make your body more efficient. It might cut down on compensating. If you need to have super mobile ankles, your T-spine has to be able to extend a ton so you can get into that amazing overhead position.

I like to be able to get into those positions, but for me, it’s not necessarily loading in those positions. It has to be what sport you’re doing and checking what your body is capable of doing, “Is it a mobility issue? Is it a stability issue? Is it just your body hates being [laughs] in that position?”

You got to figure it out, which a lot of people, they see their favorite athlete and maybe they’re not at the pro-level yet and they aspire to be the best, but maybe their body just cannot get into that position. It’s tough to get to that ideal position that they want to.

I follow a lot of people in the fitness industry because it’s what I do. I see a lot of mobility gurus.

Right. Yeah. [laughs]

They use themselves as examples and they’re getting into these contortion-like positions. These positions that frankly I know at this point are never going to be achievable for me just because of my body parameters, my femurs are a bit longer. I’m just never going to be able to hit those positions.

There’s something really cool about what you do, and you mentioned it in the first few minutes as podcasts. You have long femurs. You’re a pretty tall guy.

You’re not going to be able to hit some of these positions that you might see a 49-kilo Olympic weightlifter hitting. There’s something cool about that because I look at what you do and I understand that you’re not taking this necessarily for granted.

You’ve had to build competency in these positions, and you know what it’s like to have some mobility restrictions and to not be able to hit some positions.

When someone is so flexible, first of all, they might have been born with it. Usually, people who are good at something or born with it, they find more interest in it because they’re better at it.

It’s they’re just genetically-gifted. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Yeah, God blessed them.

Exactly. I wish I was as mobile as some of these other people, but it can also be intimidating. I want to reach as many people as possible and be relatable, and make sure that the content I’m putting out there, it’s not, “Holy crap, he has his leg behind his head, I’m never going to be able to do that.”

I’ll give you some progressions, so you can get to maybe where you want to get to, and if that is Olympic lifting, or that could just be doing a proper box squat because you’re just starting out and you have lack of mobility, but you’re trying to work your way up.

This is a tough question, and I don’t want to ask a “gotcha” question. What is kind of the elevator pitch for your current approach to mobility when it comes to working with clients or people reading your content?

It’s all personalized because I’ve worked with…especially with my social media, I get everyone from someone who just works at a desk, or is a truck driver, is a hairdresser, and they just have some certain issues with their bodies. Then I also have the highest level of athletes.

I do the social media, but I’m also a massage therapist for a lot of top Olympians and NFL athletes. Their goals are all different. My elevator pitch is, “How mobile do you want to be and what do you need from a mobility standpoint, to be the best at what you want to accomplish?”

If that’s just being able to stand all day and not be in pain or just do some simple exercise if you go to your group class on the weekends, that’s great. If you want to be an Olympic level, athlete gold medalist, make it to the Super Bowl, what do you have to do to get to that point? Again, everything doesn’t fit into just one mold or one box. It’s different for everyone.

Before we continue on, I want to talk a little bit about terminology. I’ve used them interchangeably these two phrases, which is perhaps not correct so I want to stop myself. Mobility versus flexibility. Can you talk about how you view those two terms? If you view them differently, what those differences are?

Yeah, even myself in the past early on, when I was personal training and talking to clients, I would use them interchangeably, not really understanding what the difference is. With more studies coming out and everyone is becoming a expert in certain fields.

Flexibility is more of the passive stretch, where the mobility, it’s more active, or you’re actually moving through a range of motion instead of maybe standing there and holding a position for a long time.

Now, which is a prerequisite for which? Because I’ve heard it both ways, I’ve heard some people say, “Oh, you have to prioritize mobility first.” I’ve heard others say you have to prioritize flexibility first in order to achieve the mobility. It seems like a chicken-and-egg situation to me, but maybe you can…How do you think of that?

Actually I’ve never had someone asked me that question before. It’s because I combined both of them in whatever I’m doing. It’s never one certain thing. It’s not just doing a mobility exercise and moving through that range of motion. If doing a passive stretch or a static stretch helps you get into a mobility exercise better or easier, then I say go for it.

You can use them interchangeably because, or do one before the other, because it’s probably going to help whatever you’re doing on the other side of things. Maybe flexibility first, and then if that helps you move better in your mobility exercise, I think that would be pretty good.

It’s like you do your mobility exercises first, then you go into your strengthening and then you go into your power exercises, kind of that hierarchy.

It’s interesting. For those listening, if you want to dive more into that, someone who I think really does a good job separating the two out in the work he does, which is very, very different. He’s targeting different audiences, is Dr. Jordan Shallow.

I was just talking to someone about him the other day, I think he went on Joe DeFranco’s Show, yeah.

He’s actually been on our podcast twice. He’s been in a bunch of BarBend videos. I call him a good friend of the brand at the same time. He’s this very cool guy and I want to call him like a personal friend, but it’s like maybe too cool for me. No, I’m kidding.

He’s an amazing guy. He’s an amazing thinker, amazing athlete, an internationally elite powerlifter, and just one of the one of the smartest people you’ll ever talk to when it comes to strength and fitness and the way he conceptualizes mobility versus flexibility.

He can talk all day about how most people are misinterpreting warm-ups and are not warming up correctly for their for their requisite activities and things like that. If you’re listening and you’re looking for more info and another take on that mobility versus flexibility question, the BarBend podcasts, because there are two of them, with Jordan Shallow.

A pretty good resource for that. Back to Joe. [laughs]

The thing is I love hearing about other professionals, because I’m not the person always digging into research and the people who follow me, a lot of it, more general pop but you do get the athletes too, but a lot of my friends is where I get a lot of my current information from. I’m still looking into it, but these guys absolutely love the science behind everything, the evidence-based work.

I love going out and talking to these people who are way smarter than I am, who went through way more education than I did. It’s amazing. I love how you can hear things just in one place like the podcasts and you can listen to all these people from different avenues.

One thing I really want to do more of in in the BarBend podcast, and so if you’re listening to this, hopefully expect more of this in the future, is putting people in conversation on these topics. We’ve done that a couple of times so far.

We actually had Dr. Jordan Shallow and Dr. Pat Davidson in conversation. In this very room where we’re recording now and that was a really cool. You can see the sparks fly in a good way. Not that they’re like, at each other’s throats, but the conversation, there’s a push and pull, because even if you agree with someone on a concept in strength and conditioning, it’s so nuanced.

That your interpretation and the way you communicate those ideas, it’s going to vary from person to person inevitably.

I’ve talked to so many people that I put on, that I really like and admire, and they are very smart, but they’ll have just a little bit of a different take on certain things. It’s not necessarily that it’s wrong. It’s preference and maybe experience.

That’s one thing I’ve learned growing in this industry is you always have to play devil’s advocate. It’s never trying to put yourself in a box. Because when I first started, I would take a Continuing Education course. Then I would follow all of his buddies.

I only believed in one thing and then a couple years later, they’re like, “Well, what about this?” I’m like, “No, that’s so stupid. This person said this.” Then I was like, “Yeah, maybe that actually does make sense.”

It’s really awesome to make sure that you listen to so many different people, and then use your own personal education and your thought process to figure out what’s best for you.

One thing that Jordan Syatt had actually taught me. This is when Jordan’s younger than me, and in many ways, much more accomplished and much smarter than I’ll ever be. There are many different ways to say the same thing to the same person, especially if you’re working with clients.

Jordan is very big on…That’s true if you discuss evidence-based fitness, it’s true when you…We’re all often in agreement. It’s just we’re phrasing things differently.

Exactly.

Coaches have a lot of experience with that. Jordan I know…Jordan Syatt is very big on internal versus external cuing. Like for a squat, “Keep your chest up.” May be not the best cue for everyone. “Show me the letters on your shirt,” a great cue he uses all the time.

I watched one of his recent videos. “Show your nipples to the wall.” [laughs]

It’s actually gotten more explicit as he came back to you. When he first coached, it was like, “Keep your chest up.” Then it was, “OK, expand your chest. Show me the letters on your shirt.” Now, it’s “Point your nipples to the wall.”

He gets to the point across.

There’s no nuance there. There’s nothing left there. When it comes to internal versus external cuing and how you communicate to clients, what are some of the challenges you have to overcome and what are some methods you use to overcome those?

In my practice in Orlando, it’s more massage therapy-based or sports massage therapy-based where I work on a lot of powerlifters, CrossFitters, regular athletes, just everyone. One of the toughest things to do is especially some sees there are new people, I mean some of the people you never met, is building a good relationship and making sure that you break down some of their barriers coming in…

Just to clarify, new working with you but they’re not necessarily new athletes.

Exactly. Trying to figure out how they learn because sometimes people like the explanations and then some people like the very simple, like, “Joe, don’t tell me any of this shit. Just tell me what to do and I’ll do it.” Some people are like, “What muscle’s working and what’s the action for this position?”

I love the way of like, “If you’re teaching a squat and…” I don’t teach that much. I know the basics and I probably know more than the basics but I let the people who spend most of their time in strength training take care of that stuff but yeah, spreading your feet apart to make sure you’re glutes are firing during the squat.

Push your hips back to the low. That type of stuff I think is a little bit better for people to understand most of the population.

Say if I have a powerlift or say I live in Orlando, Florida. I would never live in Orlando. I’m kidding.

It’s chill. I do like New York though.

It’s great.

It’s too hot for me down there. Anyway, say I’m a powerlifter in Orlando, Florida and I come to you and I have some mobility restrictions that I think are preventing me from reaching optimal positions in the squat, bench press, deadlift.

By the way, I do think mobility restrictions matter more than deadlifting, a lot of people think. Just my opinion. What is going to be an initial assessment that you might do on me? What’s that going to look like?

The first thing, everyone’s different, everyone’s customized. You want to make sure, first of all, how are they moving is, “Show me how are you deadlifting?” I will not touch technique that much unless it’s probably going to hurt you. There are some great coaches down in Orlando. One is Camargo.

Yeah, Danny Camargo. He’s also been on our podcast. We’ve been lucky to have him in some USA weightlifting events that BarBend’s involved with. He’s a guest color commentator, so whip-smart guy, great athlete, fantastic coach.

There’s some high-level coaches down in around the area that I’m at. I get some of these people are like, “Oh, you work with Camargo? Awesome.” I don’t even have to worry about techniques. That’s not my place to tell people, which a lot of professionals, they might inject themselves in a little too much.

Really? OK.

Yeah. Sometimes they’re like, “You got to do this,” and then the coach is like, “You got to do this.” Just being in athletics, that’s pretty detrimental [laughs] to your career. You definitely don’t want to overstep the coaches unless it’s a real big issue. I’ll have someone come in, “Hey, were you having issues with that?”

“Ah, I’m struggling to get my blood, all the way down the ass to grass and I’m getting a little bit of a butt wink.”

“Then you just got to check your ankles, check your T-spine.” Just kind of figure out where they’re at and then attack.

I always like to attack the obvious issues. “What’s the big glaring ones you don’t…? Ankles are a pretty big one in any type of weightlifting. Make sure the ankles are good. How’s the calves doing?” Then going from there, working from down, up.

There are only so many now. The body’s very connected. A lot of stuff influences. Nothing is in a vacuum. There are only so many things that can go wrong in a human and human body over the course of a squat.

There are a lot of them. If you go down a checklist, then you’re going to eventually find some restrictions. They might be interrelated and interlocking, but there’s a limited set of problems that could occur.

Usually, it’s not too complex. If it’s like ridiculously complex, I won’t lie, I’ll probably refer them to someone [laughs] who’s been dealing with that type of work for a long time, maybe specializes just in weightlifters.

But yeah, usually it’s a lot of obvious suspects. You can only squat so many different ways and you can deadlift so many different ways. It’s usually going to be one of these two issues or three issues.

We’re talking a lot about strength athletes because that’s what we cover in BarBend.

A lot of your work is based around being accessible to a general population and helping athletes of all different types from desk-workers who are just trying to get that session in before work, to semi-competitive athletes, to the weekend warriors, to people who are just trying to feel a little better. It’s not like you’re working with a hundred percent strength athletes.

One thing that I like about your content and that you’re very well known for is taking these concepts and distilling it down into a format that’s easy for people to adhere to on a regular basis.

The first question I want to ask you related to that is…OK, I’ve heard this said four different ways but stretching. Is it something to see the progress you truly have to do every day? If I miss a day of stretching, am I going to be taking two steps back?

It’s all about consistency with anything you do. If you just take too long of a break, your body adapts in the opposite direction. It’s not going to progress. If you’re doing things like working out all the time and you’re putting your body through certain ranges of motion, you’re probably not going to lose it.

It’s usually, if you’re just not doing [laughs] anything for a long time and you’re not moving in the way you should be or for your activity, then that’s where it gets a little bit sticky. For me, I like to do a little bit of something every single day. If you skip a day, it’s probably not going to be that big of a deal.

Again, it depends on your goal. If you’re a high-level athlete, maybe you probably want to spend a little bit more time on your body. If you’re just the weekend warrior, you just like to lift maybe three, four times a week, scale it back.

Then if you’re feeling a little bit tighter during a session or two weeks later you’re doing a session, you’re like, “Ah, this does not feel right,” then just ramp up a little bit on the side.

This is a bit of a segue because I do want to talk about your book here in a second. When it comes to the amount of time put in consistently. Consistent work, what you could adhere to is the best program. The best diet is one you could adhere to. The best training protocol is one you can adhere to.

When it comes to a mobility or flexibility routine…I say both because I don’t want to get called out for using those interchangeably again for all of you various true listeners who have called us out on that before.

How much is someone like the, say recreational-lifter, someone who’s lifting three or four times a week, probably not setting any national or international records, but they want to keep some muscle mass, maybe build some muscle mass, build that strength, how long per day should they, in an ideal world, do dedicated mobility or flexibility work?

For my book, I kept it at nine minutes just because through my membership site with thousands of members, I found great results with something like nine minutes. It’s also non-intimidating where it’s like, “Oh, I’ve got to do 30 minutes of this class of yoga or stretching,” because you won’t do it. It comes back to the best program is the one you can stick to them.

I always say, if you need a little bit more, you can definitely up the amount of time, but I like 9 minutes, 18 minutes, 20 minutes.

Potentially just stick it in during your warm-up. That’s another great way to fit it in without thinking about it too much, is you’re going to have to warm-up anyways or you should be warming up, put that information or put that exercise in before you train.

What about all the people who say you shouldn’t do any…

Of power stuff? [laughs]

 …static-stretching or passive-stretching before a workout?

It might be a little bit different with your crowd. The studies are saying, “You decrease power if you hold a static stretch for this long,” but usually that’s when it’s a long duration hold. It’s not a 30-second to a minute hold. It’s much longer when you’re statically stretching.

I don’t mind it because I don’t think it’s going to apply to most people anyways. If your max on squad is 315, are you going to be squatting 315 max that session? Most people won’t. They’re going to scale it back.

There’s studies saying, it’s going to get mitigated anyways if you go through a proper warm-up. Let’s say you start off with some static-stretching, then you follow it up with a dynamic warm-up, and then you do something that’s a little bit more explosive, fire up the CNS. By that time it’s usually, you probably won’t see that big of a difference.

Your book is called Better Stretching, subtitle…Subtitles for books are my favorite. I don’t care about titles. I’m all about subtitles. “9 Minutes a Day to Greater Flexibility, Less Pain, and Enhanced Performance, the JoeTherapy Way.” Then, your real name Joe Yoon is on the cover.

 [laughs] Yes, it is. [indecipherable 28:11] want to make sure.

You could legally change your name to Joe Therapy. I’m sure it’d be fine.

Here’s my question. Are you worried that next year, someone’s going to come out with “8 Minutes a Day to Greater Flexibility…”? It’s like that scene in “Half Baked.” I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie where things like Eight-Minute…

…you’ll probably get ripped on and when I said didn’t watch it. [laughs]

It’s like there’s a scene where, I think it’s in Half Baked, the character goes, “‘Eight-Minute Abs’? I’m going to release ‘Seven-Minute Abs.'”

[laughs] Yes, it’s going to keep going down and down.

“I’m going to make millions of dollars.”

Are you concerned at all that…Is that nine minutes a day, is that the bare minimum? You say you came up with this after feedback from thousands of clients and members on your online portal. I want to dig into that time period, nine minutes. What am I doing in those nine minutes?

That’s the perfect…Also, the title and you probably get a lot of feedback on this. Especially because there’s a lot of evidence coming and saying stretching doesn’t enhance performance. It doesn’t decrease injury.

I’m very aware of this stuff, but I think of it…I spin it a little bit where if you’re trying to do an exercise like a squat and you have someone coaching you, “Oh, ass-to-grass or go to the step,” and you can’t get to those positions. In my opinion, it’s going to help you decrease injury in that standpoint.

I know you probably get some questions like, “Oh, that’s bullshit. You can’t decrease injuries. All the studies you’re saying, it won’t,” but I think working with a lot of these high-level athletes that getting into certain positions are very important, help prevent some injuries.

Then also in the nine minutes, I keep it very quick, but I combine it with strength exercises as well, which a lot of people don’t know. They see me as a one-trick pony. He’s just a stretching guy, but my first job was a personal trainer.

I make sure that in the book, I talk a little bit about the strengthening aspect and how important it is to put into a program. Even if it is just a stretching book, I want to make sure that people know you have to strength train a little bit as well to make these flexibility gains last. Also, that will help with injury prevention too.

They see the title Better Stretching. It’s only stretching. It’s a lot more than that.

It is interesting because the cover which I really like, you’re on the cover. We see you. If you would ask me just to look at this book, to judge a book by its cover without knowing more about you, I wouldn’t necessarily think that there was discussion about resistance training, hypertrophic response or anything like that, but it is a big part of what you do.

Is there anyone else in the fitness industry who may be inspired you or whose work you admire when it comes to combining the mobility flexibility information with the resistance training and muscle building and strength training?

Yeah, I think Kelly Starrett is kind of like the OG of this therapy. He made everything boom. This was not…

Yeah, “Supple Leopard.”

Supple Leopard, both copies. None of these was cool before he came out, but he came out with this and did all the YouTube videos. It changed everything. I think it sucks for him a little bit because he was all about smashing, smashing, smashing where now the evidence…Maybe he shouldn’t be pressing as hard and more…

Maybe you should just be punching yourself with a plastic implement all day.

Exactly, yeah, but I think people need to remember he’s the one who opened the gates here. None of us probably would exist unless he came out and was the first person out there. He definitely, I think, set the bar early on and helped open people’s eyes about movement before loading.

I think it’s interesting to Kelly Starrett meeting you in person. You’re a pretty big guy. I mean that in a good way. You’re pretty tall. You’re pretty muscular. You’re clearly someone who has touched the barbell before. Let’s put it that way.

A lot more before than recently, it’s been a little bit…

Hey people get busy…Yeah, but you meet Kelly Starrett. I was fortunate to meet him a few years ago. He’s massive.

I remember watching his videos, and I’m like, “This guy is fucking jacked.”

He is so strong. The dude could lift it like…can lift a house.

And he’s very supple too on top of it. [laughs]

Yeah. It’s interesting because I think he was such a good ambassador for that. He was such a good first wave of that because it wasn’t…

Even if he was very big in the CrossFit community and so still is heavily involved in the CrossFit community, CrossFitters weren’t seeing this guy…This guy does not look like a yoga instructor, the stereotypical thing that maybe lifters might run away from. He’s not skinny. He’s not waif-thin.

The dude has some power behind him. I’ve seen him power clean 315 pounds like it was an empty Coke kit model or something like it’s a cake. He’s a very strong dude. I think he was a good…Just like you are the face of your own brand, he was a very good ambassador for what he was promoting. He’s like, “I’m supple. I’m strong. I walk the walk, and I look the part.”

It’s interesting you bring him up as an early inspiration.

Yeah, nothing…a lot of us would not be here without his, first of all, his knowledge. Now, I think he’s evolving too. It’s not just smash, smash, smash. He was talking a little bit about the stuff that’s coming out that you see in the evidence, so I think it’s great.

It’s interesting because he did talk a lot about smashing and that self-myofascial release was such a big part of what he did back then, maybe a little less of a highlight or less of a part of what he does now. But he had this hip-opener video like how to open up your hips before squat, those kind of this dynamic hip-opener.

I’ve been to multiple CrossFit gyms today. This is like…He probably released his video ten years ago at this point. I’ve been to multiple CrossFit gyms in the past three to four years. I’ve seen multiple powerlifters and weightlifters in the past three to four years use an adapted version of the hip-opening sequence that he popularized via YouTube.

I would guess most of those coaches and athletes, no fault of their own, don’t know where that originated because it’s just been passed down so many times. It’s so amazing to me how this one video that he released at CrossFit San Francisco 10 years ago, and that’s how so many, literally thousands of people warm-up today.

It’s amazing. That’s why I love the social media aspect of things. Some people there’s that God, so bad for you, but I always like to think of the pros. It’s like you can reach so many people. If you’re putting good information out there, if your intentions are good, then it’s great because you reach so many more people, and you can help those people.

Things like that, yeah…You might do a Pigeon Pose, they go, “Oh, Kelly Starrett, huh? Or something like that.

Or the lacrosse ball, “Oh, Kelly Starrett?” But I think that’s great because it showed that people really cared about what he was doing.

What’s the next stage for your career? Is this your first book?

First book in…Yeah, a lot of the stuff happened very quickly for anyone with a social media and the book…Yes, so for me, the next…It’s been quite three years since I started social media. The next three years, I just want to continue to try to reach more people and try to put again more good information in more people’s hands.

I live in this bubble, and I’m not as well seen as some of these other people, but I want to make sure that making people move better and then feeling better at the same time.

Where do you see expanding your own knowledge base because something you talked about a few times during this recording, which I like hearing is learning more, changing the way you think, referencing how someone like Kelly Starrett has changed his approach and evolved with more evidence coming out?

Where are some areas of wellness and movement that you think you could grow with and grow in?

This is tough because I’m a massage therapist by trade. A lot of evidence is coming out saying, “Maybe the manual therapy isn’t the best. And maybe stretching is not the best.” I’m like, “Damn.”

That’s what you do.

This is what I do. This is my career but I don’t think that I need to necessarily not do it but use this evidence and make sure that the narrative is correct. A lot of these evidence-based people that I’m very good friends with and a lot of people that I hang out with are very evidence-based. It’s what you tell people.

It’s not what you’re doing to them. It’s what you’re telling them because if I’m a massage therapist, I’m like, “You’re breaking down the adhesions,” blah, blah, blah. They’re like, “He’s a clock. Don’t go to him.” But if you’re just saying, “Hey, it’s a neurological change, it’s going to give you a little bit more range of motion and then let’s go do some exercises and load you.”

Then it’s OK. Or at least it’s better than what I said before. I like to hang out with people who are, first of all, smarter than I am because I’m going to learn so much more. Learn from them as well on top of looking into some extra reading and research.

Joe, where is the best place for people to keep up to date with what you’re doing and for how your career and approach of all as your knowledge base of alls?

My first home is Instagram. You can find me @joetherapy on Instagram and most social channels like YouTube and Facebook, and joetherapy.com. Usually those are the best places to find me where I’m always updating what I’m doing on a day-to-day basis.

Then the book, you can also find on betterstretching.com which I made it very easy for people to find.

Betterstretching.com and then I put all the links to all the popular retailers. [laughs]

Fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us today, Joe.

Thank you for having me. It’s been amazing.