First Woman to Clean & Jerk 300 Pounds (with Karyn Marshall)

 I knew what the US women were doing, but we didn’t know what these other women were doing. It was before…They didn’t post the results of their Nationals or their qualifying events — pretty much anywhere. We didn’t have any idea what any of the women were going to do from any of the countries.

Welcome to the “BarBend Podcast,” where we talk to the smartest athletes, coaches, and minds from around the world of strength. I’m your host, David Thomas Tao, and this podcast is presented by barbend.com.

Today, I’m talking to Dr. Karyn Marshall, a legend in the sport of weightlifting. Karyn began her lifting career in the ’70s. In 1985, she became the first woman in history to clean and jerk over 300 pounds.

She competed in and won gold at the first Women’s Weightlifting World Championships in 1987, becoming the first ever American champion and the only American champion from that competition. As a master’s athlete, she also competed at the 2011 CrossFit Games.

She joins us to discuss your career in weightlifting, as well as how women’s weightlifting has evolved and grown over the past few decades.

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Karyn, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. I’m a long-time fan. This is a bucket list podcast for me. To give folks some reference on your career take us back to the first time you competed represent the United States at the World Weightlifting Championships because that’s an important reference point in your career.

Absolutely, that was the highlight. It was the very, very first Women’s World Championships 1987, Daytona Beach, Florida. We showed up with that as a qualifier and expected to take home all the gold medals. It didn’t exactly turn out that way.

China showed up [laughs] which was an unknown entity at the time in weightlifting. It wasn’t the dominant force that it is today. They prepared. They came ready to lift some heavy weights.

I was, at that point, in the weight class 82.5 kilogram weight class. Up to that point, up to the 75 kilos, they swept the gold. It was a disappointment but still US women did incredibly well than the other, as best as they could.

They performed well and it was still an exciting time. At that point, that day that I was competing, there was a lot of expectation. [laughs] I came there to win gold. That was my moment. I was prepared. I wanted it to be my golden moment.

They came up to me and basically said, “You’re our one chance for gold.” That was an incredible feeling. To be able to put in the time and the work and the effort and to be able showcase that we were a legitimate sport and we deserved recognition and we did the best that we could. Here we are. I won the very first Women’s World Championship.

Now, this is in the age well before social media, so well before the Internet. It wasn’t like you could pop on Instagram and check out what someone’s training numbers were, how they were looking in training. When you say China was an unknown entity in weightlifting, you had no idea what their women’s team was capable of leading up to that, right?

We had no idea. That was an unknown. They did not release…You could go back in magazines. You could go back in [laughs] literally paper print magazines. I knew what the US women were doing but we didn’t know what these other women were doing.

They didn’t post the results of their nationals, of their qualifying events pretty much anywhere. We didn’t have any idea what any of the women were going to do from any of the countries.

My big question for you, and this a bit rhetorical, why haven’t they made a movie about this event yet?

This is like, the drama is built-in. You don’t have to fictionalize anything, right?

It was exciting. It was an exciting time. At the time, the executive director of POWs weightlifting USA back then that USA weightlifting, Harvey Newton, and he came up. He goes, “You’re our only hope now.” I’m like, “Don’t worry Harvey. I got this. [laughs]

Something to that effect. I felt it was on my shoulders. I felt like we had to at least come away with something.

Especially on US soil and it’s such a milestone in weightlifting, the first Women’s World Championship. In my mind, I almost think, “Oh, it’s…” I obviously know where it was. It’s got to be in some in Los Angeles, or in Madison Square Garden or in Rome or like us something. It’s like, no, it was Daytona Beach. It was Florida.

 It was Florida. It was in a cool stadium. It was a nice arena. It was nice. It wasn’t major events, but… [laughs]

How many years have you been training, just to give context? You win in 1987. You’re the first ever American Women’s Weightlifting World Championship? How long have you been training in the sport leading up to that?

I started in weightlifting in 1978, I believe. Before there were nationals. Before there were worlds. Before there was the Olympics. Before there were even when I competed, I was competing against men. They weren’t women’s bars. They weren’t women’s weight classes. I competed it against men. I got weighed in by men.

I’m sure some awkward, awkward stories in that last part. What inspired you to take up weightlifting at a time when it was not a competitive sport that you saw women actively participating in at scale?

I had some people around me, my coats and friends who just loved the sport and just piqued my interest in saying, “You know what, maybe I have some potential and that maybe this you could be…paved the way.” I liked that as much as I liked anything else. I liked being different. I liked the fact that it was brand new. I liked that I could maybe make a mark in this world. [laughs]

I think you certainly accomplished that in no small feet. Now, for historical context here, the first Women’s Weightlifting World Championships 1987, which just seems…Now, you think about it, you think that’s preposterous. Wait, it was until 1987. We didn’t have the sport, the international level for women. It took 13 more years for this to become a recognized Olympic sport.

What was your involvement in the sport in that 13-year time here? I know you still competed for a bit after 1987. Were you involved in any initiatives to petition this to become an Olympic sport?

 My involvement was mostly as an athlete. For a little bit of time prior to ’87, I served on the women’s committees, which what we had. I would say the person who did the most work towards it becoming an international and Olympic sport was Judy Glenney.

I don’t know if you know who she is, but she was really influential in getting involved internationally. What I did was try to do my best to show that we were legitimate athletes. I tried to be the best athlete that I could to prove that we deserve to be there through performance.

Doing things even before the 1987 World Championships, I could only set American records. I couldn’t set world records, there was no avenue for me to do that.

What I did at the behest of someone who just basically said, “You guys really aren’t worth anything until at least you could break Katie Sandwina’s record from the Guinness Book of World Records from 1908, which was the greatest overhead lift by a woman.”

I’m like, that became a goal. That would do so. I was able to set a Guinness Book World Record starting in 1985. I said, a couple of different ones, but that was the first one. I felt like that was my contribution, was to be able to show that we deserved to be on the world stage.

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Now let’s get back to the conversation. Speaking of impressive overhead lifts, let’s talk about the 300-pound barrier. Weightlifting is a sport in kilograms. I’m sure a lot of weightlifting purists are going to be really confused by this point in the conversation, because we think of weightlifting now, we think of, “Oh, I want to hit 140 kilos. I want to hit 145 kilos.”

That 300-pound clean and jerk barrier is something that’s very much associated with you. Can you talk a little bit about setting that record and the buildup to it, or setting the mark, I guess? It wasn’t a record at the time.

These were the things that I had to work with. I didn’t have an IWF World Record that I could set, so I wanted to set records. I wanted to show that I could be the first at something, and not only for myself but also to be able to establish us as legitimate.

For me, these were things that I could…There was a Guinness Book World Record I could go after. I could go after and become the first woman to snatch more than 200 pounds. I could go after it and become the first woman to clean and jerk more than 300 pounds.

Basically, I understand that it’s kilos. Yes, I cleaned and jerked 137.5 kilos, but these were gems for me. These were morsels that I could hold onto. They were carrots for me to be able to say I did that was a boost for me and the sport and to be able…It was still something. It was still a milestone that I could achieve and a ceiling that I could break through.

These were things I was trying to do to improve myself and to improve the legitimacy of our sport. They were all I had at the time. If I had other tools at my disposal, I would’ve been able to use them, but that’s what I had. [laughs]

Did you ever think that within your lifetime…? You were the first woman to ever clean and jerk more than 300 pounds. It’s such a media-friendly sound bite. I get it as a member of the media why there’s a story to be written about that as stories are written about your accomplishment.

Did you ever think that in your lifetime, you’d see a woman clean and jerk 400 pounds or over, which we’ve seen a few times?

That blows my mind. Yeah, you know what? Great, that’s what it’s for. That’s why you have those kind of barriers. Once you break through them, then there’s the next barrier, and then there’s the next barrier. Whether you want to say it, it doesn’t…Who cares if it’s in pounds or kilos? I guess a purist would.

The main thing is that records are meant to be broken. If there’s a world where they’re not broken, then the sport is not advancing. To me, that just shows that the momentum was there for it to continue to grow, and expand, and develop, and get better. That’s a great thing.

I’ve been really fortunate to talk to both Tara Cunningham and Cheryl Hayworth who were members of the 2000 Sydney Olympic team. They came away with some hardware on the international level.

 Yeah, they did.

Forgive me if I don’t know this. Were you in Sydney, or were you watching along on TV just like everyone else?

Watching on TV, yup, just like everyone else.

Halfway across the world. What was that experience like for you?

Again, that was their moment. That was their moment to shine. They did a great job. That’s the advancement. We all do what we can in the time that we have. I was in that first wave. They were more in the second wave. They were the second pioneers of breaking through the Olympic barrier.

That’s a wonderful achievement. I’m proud of them. I’m proud of what the US women have done. It’s a wonderful thing.

One thing I have to ask…We have a lot of strength athletes, very few as accomplished as you, on this podcast, I have to say. It’s all relative though.

Let’s talk a little bit about what your training was like, your training schedule. I’m always interested to see if training-type schedule protocol have evolved over the generations of weightlifters. What was your training frequency and system like?

 I had a lot of different over the years. I’ve been competing from ’78. I have a lot of different influences, a lot of different coaches that influenced how I did. I was an amateur athlete. I was working full time.

I would train in the evenings and weekends and followed training programs that were written by excellent coaches over the years. I was in the gym maybe three or four hours at a time. I was there at least probably four days a week.

When you look back at the sports evolution and the 40-plus years since you began weightlifting, besides the 1987 Women’s World Championships, besides the Sydney Olympics, what are some points that stick out to you as really impactful in changing the sport? It could be for women’s involvement or just more broadly.

You mean going back in time, or even earlier, or…?

No, since you’ve been involved in the sport of weightlifting. We’ve talked about the ’87 World Championships. We’ve talked a bit about the Sydney Olympics. Are there any other moments or things that stand out to you as being impactful for the sport? For example, I’ve asked this same question to some weightlifters, and they said “Oh, the popularization of CrossFit.”

Oh, absolutely. The popularization of CrossFit is more now. It didn’t exist then.

But over the course of 40 years?

OK. The very first step that I took in weightlifting was the nationals, the very first Women’s Nationals which was held in 1981 in De Moines, IOWA. The plane landed in a cornfield middle of nowhere. That was a pivotal moment that was all started by Mabel Rader in “Iron Man” magazine.

This was a little classified ad, if you’re a woman interested in competing, we’re interested in setting up a competition. If you’re interested, mail your name and address and that’s how that all started. Then we finally had a women’s nationals. I did an interview, I don’t know if you know Artie Drechsler.

Yeah. I’ve been fortunate enough to train in Lost Battalion a couple times.

I know Artie many, many years. He coached me for a period of time up to the Women’s World Championships. He did an interview, I’m going to say, maybe six, seven years ago. I said that, “CrossFit is going to be the biggest grassroots program for weightlifting that we’ve ever seen.” This is before it was what it was. That’s what it’s turned out to be.

The growth of weightlifting in the US specifically and the talent that we’ve seen, so many of our national level, world class level athletes are coming from CrossFit. I had some really good coaches and I trained really hard, but the level of training these CrossFit athletes are capable of is pretty incredible.

You mentioned becoming the first woman to snatch more than 200 pounds, that being a goal in your mind. It’s crazy to think that there are about a dozen or more, maybe a several dozen top women CrossFit athletes these days, who can do that in their sleep.

Right, yeah.

That’s not even when they’re training full time.

That’s crazy. The diversity of the CrossFit athlete is pretty amazing. I do CrossFit, I was at the CrossFit Games as a master in 2011. CrossFit, it’s incredible. I love CrossFit, [laughs] it’s great. It was the first board that I really fell in love with to the level that I loved weightlifting.

I loved weightlifting. I loved being a weightlifter. I feel the same thing about CrossFit and I hadn’t found anything in the interim years. I only started CrossFit in 2010.

They say that weightlifters make the best CrossFitters when they transition. The fact that you made it to the CrossFit Games one year after taking up CrossFit training. It’s like you, it’s Mat Fraser, everyone is just proving this theory.

CrossFitters are making good weightlifters. I think that’s improved. When I first started in 2010, there was some pretty horrific form from off by CrossFitters to a point it was almost a joke. Beyond that their form and their work ethic is incredible.

Let’s talk about your career in CrossFit as a CrossFit athlete. When you competed in 2011 as a master’s athlete, did your competitors know that who you were today? Did they have any idea that this was not your first time in the spotlight as an athlete at a very high level?

CrossFit did a good job of promoting that.

They were media savvy even then. It was a long time ago.

They were. They did some interviews with me. I was in the CrossFit journal before the games. They did a good job of promoting who I was.

Was there a strength event that…?

Yeah. There was a one-rep max clean and jerk.

Did you win?

Yeah. [laughs]

Of course. That was a dumb…I don’t get to ask a lot of dumb questions. That was a lot of fun to ask.

That was good.

Are there any athletes, let’s say, active today or maybe in the past decade, they could be in CrossFit or weightlifting, who have just absolutely blown your mind? Anyone who just ticks out to you like this person is truly a once in a generational talent.

There are some great athletes in CrossFit. Look at Mat Fraser, look at Tia Toomey, look at Samantha Briggs, look at all the daughters. [laughs]

 Which daughter? There are a lot of and they are all really, really good at what they do.

They are all good and they work hard. That’s the thing. They work really, really hard and their work ethic is incredible. In weightlifting, all of this generation are doing a great job.

Not every lifter has this luxury. Not every strength athlete has this luxury but we do see more strength athletes being able to compete as professionals and that is their full-time endeavor. You brought up a point earlier that you were training while working a full-time job. You were an amateur athlete.

It makes a big difference to have your time freed up. Your effort and resources freed up to focus on training and recovery and that’s it.

That’s a wonderful thing for the advancement of sports. Especially, my niche for women to be able to make a living doing something you love and dedicate yourself. That’s reflected in the fact that these women are just doing so well and how these records are getting just crushed.

When you’re putting your time in as a professional athlete instead of an amateur athlete, it’s no brainer that you’re going to do well.

If you could go back in time and give yourself, as a lifter during the peak of your lifting career maybe even a few years before your peak when you’re still trying to get to that level, any piece of advice, what might that be?

In terms of training, I see the value of the CrossFit model. I really do. Training different systems, whether it be different metabolic pathways, the diversity of training that CrossFit offers, the constantly varied but still constantly challenging and evolving within that is a great model for creating a great athlete.

I really focused on strength. I didn’t really focus on my cardiovascular. I didn’t really focus on other types of training and that ability to incorporate that makes you a better athlete, and being a better athlete is going to make you a better at your sport.

I would love to see that play out. You going back and telling yourself, “Hey, you got to start doing CrossFit. Wait, what’s a CrossFit?”

I’m sure you can imagine where that goes. Where is the best place for folks to keep up to date with you today on social media or otherwise?

 [laughs] I’m not a public figure.

The best way to get in touch with me is come visit me. I’m a chiropractor and [laughs] come to the office and let me help you. That’s my life right now. I do have a Facebook page but I take breaks from it.

You messaged me on Instagram and it took me a month [laughs] to reply because I literally didn’t even check that I had messages on Instagram. I do more social media for the office, for that kind of thing than I do for myself.

That might be the best lesson in this whole podcast recording to everyone is get off social media, go spend some time training, recovering. Spend some time with your loved ones, get outside. If there’s one piece of advice I’m going to take from this it’s maybe don’t check my Instagram messages every day, who cares.

Karyn, I really appreciate your time.

It’s been great getting your perspective. I thank you very much for sharing some of the memories from early in your competition days as well as your thoughts on multiple strength sports today. Very much appreciate your time. Thank you.

Pleasure, thank you very much.